Curse

bhavv · May 28, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

Can you change your builds as easily as in GW or is it more like Diablo 2

More like a WoW feat tree where you distribute points to improve the skills you have and get a few extra ones. Out of the skills you have, you can equip adnd use them all.

The feat points can be reset for a fee, I dont know how much it is as I havnt done it yet.

You can play with this skill tree calculator to get an idea of how it works:

http://feats.goonheim.com/tempestofs...b5g5h3l1m3n5q1

Thats just one of my many possible Ideas for my ToS

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

EDIT: One more question lol. Upon reading up on the classes again i am really lost on what to choose. I want to play a defensive character in PvP ie Paragon, Rit Monk style in GW. Which character would be a good choice?

You need to stop comparing classes to GW, none of the AoC classes are anythng like GW classes are. There are no defensive characters in AoC, unless you want to play a tank. All the classes are combat orientated, whichever class you pick, you HAVE to be offensive and fight. There isnt any other way.

I D E L E T E D I · May 28, 2008, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Cool thanks for the answers really looking forward to this^^. Installing it again atm.
Will start of as a Bear Shaman and hope that goes well. Still don't quiet understand the feat thing hopefully it will be explained well in the tutorial( there is one right?) Well once i get started will let you know how i do^^

PS: I still can't login to the official Forum :S

~ Dan ~ · May 28, 2008, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

More like a WoW feat tree where you distribute points to improve the skills you have and get a few extra ones. Out of the skills you have, you can equip adnd use them all.

The feat points can be reset for a fee, I dont know how much it is as I havnt done it yet.

The fee isn't much.

Thought i'd add that you also get to spec 'attributes'. However, they're not what your thinking, in a sense. You get the normal strength/dexterity that automatically improves with levels as in any MMO. But the attributes you get to designate points to are things such as climbing, run speed, bandaging. More attributes are opened up for spec when you level up a bit higher. As of now, only a couple of them have a noticeable effect - hopefully this will be fixed soon, as it's a good way to add further specialization.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

Cool thanks for the answers really looking forward to this^^. Installing it again atm.
Will start of as a Bear Shaman and hope that goes well.

Just for a heads up, i'm pretty sure bear shamans have to deal damage so that they can heal allies. Not quite sure how that works as i haven't played against/with one. I assume it's maybe like adrenaline for warriors, but builds up heals instead?

Quote:

Still don't quiet understand the feat thing hopefully it will be explained well in the tutorial( there is one right?) Well once i get started will let you know how i do^^

I assume you've played d2 as you mentioned it earlier? Feat trees are basically the diablo skill trees (you get 3). For example, my barbarian has 1 feat tree for dual wielding, 1 for two handers and 1 general tree (such as resistances). Obviously you'll have to choose just 1 main tree with a bit of spec in general as you won't have enough points for most of it.

The difference between these and d2's is that not every feat grants an extra skill. Most just higher your stats or improve the damage/versatility of skills you already have. As Bhavv said, another difference is that you are able to respec for a small fee.

P.S You don't train skills. You get them from upon levelling up (although you won't get a new skill every single level - and most are just stronger versions of a combo/spell you already have.

Bryant Again · May 28, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

You need to stop comparing classes to GW, none of the AoC classes are anythng like GW classes are. There are no defensive characters in AoC, unless you want to play a tank. All the classes are combat orientated, whichever class you pick, you HAVE to be offensive and fight. There isnt any other way.

Really? That'll be very interesting to see how the end-game plays out, then. If there's only two roles - one entirely occupied by one class - then raids sound a little iffy. (unless there's multiple tank classes, omw to class pages).

Scratch that, it looks like we do have a few support classes.

bhavv · May 28, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Scratch that, it looks like we do have a few support classes.

Yes theres a few tank classes and healer classes. But beyond that there isnt any actuall 'support' like lets say paragons or rits in GW. All you have is a weak healing system unless multiple priest classes are combined together, and warrior classes that wear heavy armor so can tank.

Bryant Again · May 28, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

"Support classes" can half the time be defined as the healing classes because they provide much more than healing, and the buffs that they bring (i.e. support) is what will determine their stay on the raid slot.

This is why I've wanted to wait, to see where and how each class is put into the raid and party set up. I don't want to role a class with something in mind just to be told at the end game that I have to do this (this is why Paladins in WoW became so bitter.)

bhavv · May 28, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

"Support classes" can half the time be defined as the healing classes because they provide much more than healing, and the buffs that they bring (i.e. support) is what will determine their stay on the raid slot.

Yes but the only single form of support in AoC is healing, and 66% of these are HoT's. The remaining 33% of single target heals have an incredibly long reuse rate, either based on recharge, or that a healed target cannot be one shot healed again for quite some time.

Beyond healing, there is no other form of 'Support' in AoC, unless you consider tanking to be support.

I have already said how it will work with healing on raids. You will require ONE of each priest class, no more, no less. Multiple heals from the same class do not stack, so having two ToS's for example is wasting a party slot in your raid as opposed to having both a ToS and a Pom.

Howevever, you can of course have one of each priest, and then have even more priests because the extra ones will still be doing plenty of damage.

GloryFox · May 28, 2008, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Having teamed up several times already the game favors offense, over defense.

For example one of the best Groups I was with was set up the following way.

Guardian (me)
Barbarian
Ranger
Priest of Mitra

What we would do to clear an area was to have our ranger draw them out, then have me rush in and re draw aggro. The stances would reduce damage quite a bit. I would use skills such as Goad & Taunt to keep them on me. Then continue to Pole Arm sweep the area like a Dervish, but better.

The barbarian would run in like an assassin behind me and kill the weak points on aggro quickly. If the Barbarian is heavily damaged he can simply hide and move out of harms way in the middle of combat. The Priest of Mitra would heal us up. Rinse repeat, the actions are similar to Guild Wars with a 4 man team of Warrior, Ranger, Assassin, and Monk. Only this time Armor stacked and you don't do stupid things like run Earth based Terra Tank builds. You are pure of whatever class you are. A much better system IMO than Guild Wars because your abilities are unique to your class and your role.

I'd like to point out that Priests are not always needed as most classes can heal themselves right up after a fight. I'm now a level 32 Guardian with over 2000+ hit points. I'm fully healed in about 4.5 seconds of out of combat time. Bear Shamans are a welcome sight since they get in and fight along side of you.

As a Guardian I'm now soloing 3-4 mobs at a time higher than my actual level.

on a side note: All of the classes ROCK. There is no sucky class in this game unlike GW that I have seen. If you are a fan of Guild Wars you will be a fan of this game. You can finish any quest with any class if you just use your head and keep your cool.

English Warrior · May 28, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

when are the buddy keys are realised if they are out now i need 2.

Zahr Dalsk · May 28, 2008, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Fun is still decreasing. I'm seeing less and less point to wander persistent areas completing quests with no real goal in mind.

bhavv · May 28, 2008, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Fun is still decreasing. I'm seeing less and less point to wander persistent areas completing quests with no real goal in mind.

Like vanquishing in GW has a point ....

GloryFox · May 28, 2008, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Fun is still decreasing. I'm seeing less and less point to wander persistent areas completing quests with no real goal in mind..

Like Grinding for endless titles, doing the same guild wars missions ones over and over and over and over and over again until you vomit from endless pointless grind?

I don't get the fun decreasing bit, my fun factor has only increased since I've been playing. Especially now that I fully get combo's and how to use them appropriately. Also since the game opens up once you get some levels under your belt, and crafting skills.

BTW the Bank and traders are now open.

Malice Black · May 28, 2008, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Freedooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!

Yeah lack of content in AoC is an issue. I've cancled my sub. Can't be bothered with it. Maybe when it's matured a little, I'll go back.

bhavv · May 29, 2008, 12:34 AM // 00:34

O.o can I have your stuff? o.O

~ Dan ~ · May 29, 2008, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Having teamed up several times already the game favors offense, over defense.

And that's a very, very good thing. I have to say that in AoC, health and DPS are scaled really well, so that fights are short - which gives you that more 'brutal' feeling. Obviously assassins one-shotting from stealth and the like needs to go, but overall the amount of offense provides a fast paced combat system

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

I'm seeing less and less point to wander persistent areas completing quests with no real goal in mind.

Stop playing MMO's. Seriously, when is this not the case in other games?

You explore the regions. That's part of the fun. Every single task you carry out is usually a quest. But, no real goal? I will tell you the goal:

The goal should be to reach end game. Every quest gives you the experience to do help reach that goal. Sure, the item rewards aren't great atm, but.. who cares? These items would be replaced in a few lvls time anyway, so i'd wait till lvl 70+ quests to judge the rewards.

I understand that most of the quests after lvl 20 seem very standard, but if you don't like them, you shouldn't be enjoying any MMO. I have to say that the quests in tortage, especially the main 'epic' storyline, are head and shoulders above any other MMO quest system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Yeah lack of content in AoC is an issue. I've cancled my sub. Can't be bothered with it. Maybe when it's matured a little, I'll go back.

I haven't found this a problem so far. I've been playing a fair bit, and haven't ran out of content. Still only lvl 29, but i will tell you why i haven't rushed on like most others and then ran out of content: PvP.

Seriously, playing on an FFA PvP server provides endless fun. I can just drop questing and go off looking for trouble for hours. Yes, atm there are no rewards for doing so, as PvP EXP isn't back in yet. However, i don't need ph4t lewt to have fun. Most people seem to, because they came from a gear-centric game such as WoW - which is the problem. The combat system is top notch as are the whines from people i kill. So all in all, it's hella fun.

I'm not making excuses for FC not filling in certain levels of the game. But PvP can provide endless content. It seems to me that alot of people had a bad experience with their collector's edition/EA keys or whatever - and from then on told themselves that they didn't want to enjoy the game. If you wanted to, you could find/make the content yourself, providing an alternative to full out levelling (such as PvP'ing, crafting.. even though that's a bit flawed atm). Then when you eventually reach 50+, maybe FC will have added some stuff.

GloryFox · May 29, 2008, 02:43 AM // 02:43

I had another great group today, Myself of course, A Conqueror, An HoX, and a Barbarian. We were doing a quest that took us to the end of a valley where we had to Kill a sorcerer and burn some tents. As a group we could easily pull 4-5 Groups and kill everything around us within a few seconds.

Conqueror's can really boost the offense of the party in general. I was not sure what that HoX was doing but he could out DPS everyone, and almost out tank my Guardian. Overall the system again showed that the game favors high DPS over protection, and heals. Any class including the weak armored HoX can show itself as a valued member of a Group.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black
Yeah lack of content in AoC is an issue.

Considering you did not get very far, I think you ended the game too soon. Have fun grinding in any other MMO, World of Warcraft or Guild Wars. Two people I know already have 65th level characters they tell me there is way too much to explore, it will take a lot of time to see it all, and the Mounted combat is taken to levels they were not expecting. Remember this game is 27 GIG's for crying out loud how big is World of Warcraft or Guild Wars?

~ Dan ~ · May 29, 2008, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Overall the system again showed that the game favors high DPS over protection, and heals.

So far, the best form of protection i've seen is by using knockbacks/stuns

Quote:

Remember this game is 27 GIG's for crying out loud how big is World of Warcraft or Guild Wars?

To be fair, that 27 GBs signifies things other than how many areas there are.

Nevin · May 29, 2008, 03:11 AM // 03:11

If anyones looking for a good North american guild with a large amount of members and a steady forum/site you should check out bloodroyal.net

That is if anyone hasn't found a nice guild to settle in already.

Zahr Dalsk · May 29, 2008, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Dan - I have no problems with grinding. Shit, I spent a couple thousand hours grinding in Guild Wars. What I have a problem with is when there's grinding with no real goal in mind, and when there's no real story lasting there. I liked Tortage, for example, because there was a strong story focus; the story had lots of stages and you could stick with it. Then I step out into Khemi and am told to go gain ten levels. Well fine, ten levels is ok, but not if it's spent aimlessly wandering killing things and helping random people. If it at least kept the story fixed firmly where I could see it - that would be fine. But if I recall correctly the quest giver didn't even tell me anything about the next stage, just some shit about not being strong enough. If it kept some sort of overarching goal where I could see it - that would be fine. But no, not even items, because as a Herald of Xotli I have (as the AoC forum-goers call it) the Generic Red Robe of Ubiquitousness.

Now, they've put in more effort than most game developers do these, so I'm staying with it for now to see how it is, but I should most definitely hope the endgame is actually interesting and engaging, because right now I'm mindlessly wandering around doing quests in desolate wastelands.

Mass Effect's out though, and I think razor1911 have gotten past Securom already.

Anarkii · May 29, 2008, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Most people trying to play solo or with a random guild will get bored in the mid levels in this game. If you have a good guild and group of people to play with, there's a lot to do, particularly on PvP servers.